--  Home --  Maps --  The Project --  Pintails --  Field Methods --  Satellite Tracking --  Journal --  Forum --   --  2000 Season Summary --  2001 Season Summary --  2002 Season Summary --  2003 Season Summary --  Related Links --

MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

I was out at Grey Lodge WMA about two weeks before dove season and noticed a few birds on the closed zone. Some sprig, Gadwall and of course mallards. Well we went back to Grey Lodge on the opener for doves (Sept. 1st) and after the first shoot swarms of birds got up from the area mostly sprig. Did we have a larger # of sprig come down this year compared to previous years because of L Klamath?

Moderator's Response: Mike, Sacramento NWR may have counts that might indicate whether there are more here this year. However, by the first of September, several tens of thousands of pintail will be in the Valley as a matter of course. Most of these are adult males that have migrated after regaining flight status after their summer molt. This wing and body molt occurs in males (and hens) as part of their normal "post-nesting" activity (after they leave the hens to their nesting duties). This molt occurs in traditional large marshes with extensive emergent cover, and our satellite data (hens only) suggest that these early arrivals to the Central Valley are from the prairies.

I am writing from a documentary television production company called Working Dog Productions. We are producing a TV series on birds for a new cable station. We are currently working on a show about bird migration and will be filming two USGS scientists as they radio collar and track a group of Tule geese. We are looking for people to be in our show who have been watching the pintail migration on this website. We would like to find someone who is in or near the New York City area. If you are interested, please contact me. Thanks. Shelley Griffin Working Dog Productions 145 Palisade St., Riverfront Dobbs Ferry, NY 10522 914-674-6001 sgriffin@workdogpro.com

Moderator's Response: No explanation necessary!

Thank you for the vast amount of work and information that you devote to the DU website. The information that you provide about the pintail is incredible. I killed a handsome pintail drake last January 2001 in Central Texas. I had him professionally mounted by a local taxidermist. We estimate the bird's age to be approximately 2-3 years. Is there a way to gauge his age accurately? Thank you for any information you may provide. George Brown DU Member 02678644

Moderator's Response: George: Flight capable Pintails and other dabbling ducks can only be aged as "Hatch-year" (has yet to enter its first breeding season) or "After Hatch-year" (at least 2 years old and has gone through at least one breeding season); determining age to year beyond this is not possible. Determination of HY or AHY is done using plumage characteristics or bursal depth by probing the cloaca. Only if a bird is banded can the exact age, from date of banding, be estimated. Thanks for your interest and good hunting this year.

It is fascinating the way these birds migrate, especially those going directly to Alaska or Russia. Do you think that it is possible that the number of pintails has been overcounted in the past, namely the 50s and 70s? Perhaps we are simply more accurate in the way that we count birds now, and that accounts for the "drop" in the number of birds. Also, and I know this is a recurring theme, will the season be a loss over in the Klamath Basin? I hunt on public land there where I expect there to be water, but I know that absent a miracle the refuges will be dry. Will the birds be gone, or just concentrated on the few wet areas. I am worried! Keep up the good work.

Moderator's Response: Our Russian colleagues are very interested in the migration of birds to the Far East of Siberia. They are submitting proposals to examine breeding birds in that area. As for previous counts, it varies between breeding or wintering counts. We suspect that breeding birds fly over major breeding areas and use other areas during dry years. The breeding data has been carefully reviewed in recent papers, and the decline seems well supported. Wintering counts are typically undercounted when you have large numbers, so errors in the past may have been undercounts. As part of the overall research, we hope to initiate spring migration studies of pintails in the region surrounding the Klamath Basin this coming year.

Thanks for the research on the pintail. This is a very important species where I hunt. I have two questions. The first question is by the location of the hens how many of the hens in the study do you think were successful at hatching and raising a brood? Second, I hunt in the Imperial Valley of California near the Salton Sea. I have always been told that the pintails we see arrive via the Great Salt Lake. Could you confirm where the birds we see in the Imperial Valley nest? Thanks for your answers. Keep up the good work.

Moderator's Response: Although their movements show the major breeding areas, we don't actually know how many hens nest successfully. We may obtain an indication of possible breeding from the length of time hens are located in the same spot during the breeding season. Since we haven't marked hens in the Salt Sea area, we're not sure of their exact nesting location although some information. Some pintails are likely migrating south to Mexico, and recent standard radio studies indicated some pintails moved from the West Coast to the Interior Highlands during spring migration, suggesting a route through the Great Basin.

I posted a message on June 2nd. I am the senior biologist at Malheur NWR. We have completed our pair counts and brood surveys, initiated our annual banding (broods, molting drakes, hens). We have data on pintails (pairs, broods, nest cards) over the years for MNWR. They are not are most common breeding duck species on MNWR, but we have them. We have performed some VERY preliminary analysis of the nest card data (success, veg community, land use, etc.) If you are interested in our data, we could share it with you if you think it would be any help for your research. You DO NOT need to respond to me on the forum, you can contact me at Richard_Roy@fws.gov

Moderator's Response: Rick, Thanks very much for your message about work on pintails at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Malheur seems to be an important spring staging area for pintails from the Central Valley, and possibly a breeding area for some. We will contact you directly about your information, it certainly would be helpful for us to learn what you've been finding.

Hi, i was wondering do you guys do any research on pintails in any other flyways? I live in the mississippi flyway for example and i was just wondering if you or you know of anyone that does any research in my flyway? I live in Southeast Missouri, and we don't get that many pintails and i was wondering why? Also did you guys band these hens, so that you know how long they made it for? Just curious. Kyle Rice

Moderator's Response: We do not do pintail research in other flyways directly, but we support such work. Contact the Gaylord Lab at the University of Missouri, Puxico to learn about waterfowl research in the Mississippi Flyway and your state. If you don't get many pintails in your neck of the woods it's either because you are not in a major flyway or the habitat types are not to their liking. We banded the hens in addition to attaching the transmitters. Thanks for you interest in the project.

Based on the data you have for the past two years, can you judge how many hens stayed in one place long enough to lay a clutch of eggs, incubate, and hatch ducklings? In essence can you judge nest success from your data? How about nesting effort? On a side note - why was production bad in Alaska? Weather? Thanks!

Moderator's Response: Jeff, we will eventually determine the percentage of hens that stayed in one location long enough to fledge young. Of course, that's all a guess without actual observations of the birds. Also, hens often molt (after or in the absence of nesting) in the same general vicinity, further complicating the guesswork. Alaska production on the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta was poor owing to intense arctic fox predation. The population of these predators was larger than normal.

I am sure you saw the numbers that came out of DU a couple of days ago (3,296mm +13%). As everyone was fearing pintail numbers might not even make 1.5 million and there would be a closure because of the low count in Alberta (67,000 I believe). It's nice to see the counts now are picking up pintail that might have been passed up in previous years. I credit part of that to this study. BTW, pintail are the only major species with a gain in population this year. Just maybe pintail are more adaptable then many think.

Moderator's Response: Mike, I have the official data from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and you are correct. Only pintail showed an increase this year, but the increase was statistically not significant, so the official status is no change from last year. Pintail are adaptable, and they settled in the wettest areas of the prairies in large numbers. For instance, increases in breeding population compared to last year were recorded in S. Manitoba (97,000, +117%), S. Saskatchewan (680,000, +47%), and the E. Dakotas (680,000, +93%). As you note, however, numbers in S. Alberta reached a record low (66,000, -65%). Alaska's numbers remained unchanged (1.4 million), and production was poor there.

One of the birds looks to be back in the sac valley. Is this due to the flooded rice here in the valley at this time? I see lots of Mallards in the area on the rice checks. Would this make the Sprig hang around too?

Moderator's Response: Pintail #17824, has shown an atypical movement pattern, so we don't want to make too much of it. She may have returned to molt, as we have trapped pre-molt hen pintails in the Valley in August. She spent spring in northwestern Nevada (Massacre Lake area), then moved back to the Sacramento Valley for a short time. Later, she went back north, moving among S. Oregon, N.E. California, and N.W. Nevada. She then headed south to Sacramento NWR near Willows. Just yesterday, I noted about 1500 pintails on rice levees just north of the Yolo Basin Wildlife Area west of Sacramento; a very large number for this time of year. The mallards you see are part of the local nesting population. Few pintails nest in the Sacramento Valley, but early arrivals do use the rice.

A French Website to Look at ! (ducks in France) http://www.ifrance.com/chasse-tir

Moderator's Response: Thanks. We'll check it out.

Hi, I was recently asked how many Pintails migrate through our area in the spring. You should have a pretty good gut feeling after all those radios flowed north this spring. "Our area" is in north-central Montana within the 30-40 mile corridor along the Rocky Mountain Front. It includes Freezout Lake Wildlife Management Area and Lewis and Clark, Teton, Ponderea, and Glacier Counties. Would you give me your best guess? Thanks

Moderator's Response: Mike, That's a good question. About 25% (13) of our pinsat birds passed through Montana on their way to Alberta this year (several others passed through on their way to other northern or eastern locations), and about half of these (6) used Freezeout Lake and/or Benton Lake NWR or areas near these. Central Flyway pintails may pass through this area too, so Central Valley pintail use would give a biased view of total use. Best thing might be to check with the wildlife area and refuge folks to get their periodic counts data. In any event, your area is a critical spring migration area for northward bound pintails. Good luck.

I would like to cite your results in a scientific paper on birds of the Fraser River delta. May I use your web address or better still, have the results (direct flights to Alaska) been published in the scientific literature?

Moderator's Response: Rob, You may cite our web address; results have not been published. Thanks for your interest in our work, and good luck with your paper. We note that in 2 years, we have not recorded any Pinsat (or Point Mugu this year) pintails on the Fraser Delta. The closest point would have been the one pintail we located briefly this spring in Willapa Bay on the southern Washington coast.

Can you begin to provide a brief perspective in your weekly posts of what the birds are likely doing during the particular time of year. Can we assume those that are relatively stationary are on nests or with broods? At what date do nesting attempts usually cease? Can we assume that the birds still moving have not/will not nest this year? Are they moving to molting sites? What are those birds in the valley (Sac) still doing here? Are some of them nesters? Non-migrants? Great site! Keep it up. Thanks.

Moderator's Response: Mike, Thanks for your many questions; unfortunately, you have more than I have room to answer! We cannot tell what the birds are doing from satellite locations; however, birds that are alive and not moving could be assumed to be nesting, brooding, or molting; those moving from place to place are probably not doing so; cessation of nesting depends on latitude, but new nests would be very rare after midJune anywhere; only very few pintails nest in the SacV; the PTT in SacV migrated from Pt. Magu at least.

In was in a market a few years ago in Japan and stumbled on some sprig for sale. Does a percentage of pintails cross into the "far east" flyway? Perhaps from Russia? And what kind of numbers of Sprig are in the Far East?

Moderator's Response: Thanks for the observation. Pintails taken in Japan most probably came from eastern Russia. Whether pintails trade between the Far East and North America remains to be seen. So far, our Pinsat birds have not shown this, but our sample is pretty small to show what must be a rare event. There probably are some estimates for nesting pintails in the Far East, but I don't have access to them. I'll post something in the Journal if I run across some data.

Mr. Miller- On June 5, I observed approx. 50 northern pintails in the Northern Sacramento Valley (Esquon Area). The birds were utilizing sheet water on rice fields. Some of the birds were flocked and others were paired and semi-isolated from the larger flock. There were considerably more males than females. Any explanations?

Moderator's Response: Hi Rich, Good observation! There has been a Point Magu pintail in that area, so she must have some friends with her. All Pinsat birds have left the Valley. Since you saw mostly males, some hens might be nesting up there, or they are nonbreeders. Thanks for the confirmation that live pintails were present in the vicinity of a PTT!

Since this started, I have been following #17708 on her journey. It appeared that she would be nesting just south of the Oregon border, but with the latest map, I see she has headed into British Columbia. Isn't it late for her to be trying to find a nesting site? What are the chances she will still successfully pair up and nest further north?

Moderator's Response: Tim, It is probably too late for nesting. The location in which she now resides, at first Shuswap Lake and now the upper end of Okanagan Lake, would not be considered prime pintail nesting range. Perhaps there are marshes there suitable for molt. Thanks for your interest.

I am one of the biologists at Malheur NWR in SE Oregon. This spring we had large numbers of pintails on Malheur Lake. On one occasion I estimated that there were close to 10-15,000 maybe more loafing on ice, open water and mud flats on Mud and Malheur Lake. Pretty impressive sight!! Several of the birds being tracked came through MNWR. It appears that one may still be here!! Water conditions are extremely poor throughout Oregon, not only in Klamath Basin. We just completed our annual waterfowl pair counts. Wetland conditions are quite variable, but will get worse as the summer progresses if the weather continues to be warm, windy and dry.

Moderator's Response: Rick: Thanks for your observations. Yes, Malheur was very important to migrating pintails this spring, as well as spring 2000. One, #17689, did remain at least through the end of May this year; unfortunately, we haven't received a location on this bird since May 29th, but perhaps she is still there and among the local nesters. Hopefully, the dry pattern will change, and a wet fall and winter will improve wetland conditions throughout the Great Basin in time for next spring's migration.

The research that you are compiling is fabulous, Thanks. Its every hunters desire to see the plight of the pintail in such respectable and responsible hands. My question is: Are we on our way to recovery, or is the pintail issue still in the middle of a downward trend? Has the curtailment on pintail harvests in the past few years been beneficial as far as numbers concerned?

Moderator's Response: You have asked the million dollar questions! We are on our way to a more full understanding of the annual life cycle habitat needs of pintails, and we are learning about how long-term habitat changes have impacted this species. Recovery will be, I'm afraid, an equally long-term prospect; however, weather patterns, as they control habitat conditions, in key winter, migration, and especially prairie nesting regions, and conversion of uplands to pintail-friendly land cover types will be key in the years ahead. As far as the effect of harvest restrictions, you would be better served to direct that question to the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Division of Migratory Bird Management (the 4 Flyway representatives) or Regional Migratory Bird Coordinators.

Well Mike, unfortunately it appears that the over flight to Alaska is underway big time. What do the brood success surveys typically show when these birds over fly the traditional areas and settle in to an area like the Y/K Delta? It must be somewhat harsher and later nesting than the prairies but on the other hand there must be some attractive similarities for those "regulars" (the one million or so) that do return there every year. Looking on the map, the area seems so vast to get decent numbers. On another note..What on earth are they all going to do when they all fly back down and try and stage in the Klamath Basin this fall to only find that the water has been shut off to all the refuges and farm lands for various reasons?

Moderator's Response: Frank, These are good questions. Brood production is normally pretty good in Alaska judging by harvest age-ratios. Production will be nil from the western Canadian prairies but good from the eastern portion and the Dakotas. I think the water problem mainly affects Lower Klamath NWR specifically, but if it is dry, and if other wetlands (state, federal, private) cannot provide enough food for the birds, and no grain crops have been grown to provide waste grain for food, mallards, pintails, and geese at least, will have to fly directly to the Central Valley. Other species(e.g., teal, gadwall, wigeon, divers) feed primarily in marshes and might find enough foraging opportunities in the Basin even with Lower Klamath dry.

This is the second year I have followed your research project and the information you provide keeps on getting better each week. My question is simple. I have noticed that there continues to be significant movement each week of these marked hens.If we expect to see the early arrival back south which usually is seen in california in late August, is this continual movement an indication that these marked hens are not going to nest this year.If my math and knowledge of nesting is correct are the hens already seriously behind schedule if we expect them and their young to be part of the traditional early mirgrants which are in good numbers in California by Sept. 1st.Thankyou for your time and efforts towards this very important research project.

Moderator's Response: Blair, Thanks for your question. First, though, the early arriving pintails in August are almost entirely adult males, which appear brown like juveniles because of the summer molt. In late September they start molting again to attain the diagnostic breeding plumage you are familiar with. The young and females fly south later in the fall. As far as the chronology of migration this year, the birds are on schedule. In Alaska and the Northwest Territories, pintail nests are started between May 5th and June 10th or so. This allows enough time to hatch a clutch (30 days for laying and incubation) and raise a brood (40-55 days to reach flight stage). There's still time.

I was fishing Martis Creek Res. two days ago. This is a small lake located about 5 miles east of Truckee on Hwy 267. There were about 30 Gadwalls, some teal, some Mallards, and about 8 or 9 Sprig. I wouldn't think that sprig would be up this high. Maybe the teal, of course the mallards but the Gadwall and lastly the Sprig??? Is this common for them to be here and this late???

Moderator's Response: There are old records of pintails nesting at Lake Tahoe in what is now Tahoe Keys. Elevation matters little to waterfowl as long as the habitat is acceptable. We noted pintails at about the same elevation as Martis Creek in the Warner Mountains of southern Oregon - open sage brush country interspersed with wetlands would seem to be ideal habitat at any elevation during migration and even nesting. As far as the timing, those birds are on the late end of the migration, but not unusual. Good observation, and I hope you caught some fish!

The severe drought in the Klamath Basin may be leading to no refuge water (except Tule Lake) and no feed crops for waterfowl. Since this area tends to be one of the most important staging areas for pintail returning North to nest, what should we expect if there is no feed (grain) in the Basin. Also if the pintail return North without their usual "fatting up" process should we expect lower nesting success and more predator vulnerability?

Moderator's Response: Hi Mike, We are very concerned about the decision to withhold water from Lower Klamath NWR this year. Private lands, state wildlife areas, and other NWRs in southern Oregon/northeast California will have to replace the benefits now provided by Lower Klamath, or pintails will move through the area more quickly than normal to find adequate foraging habitats. The debate on the effect of body condition on nesting success has not been settled as yet, largely because intense predation overwhelms any advantage that being heavier might give to nesting hens.

I have noticed a lot of Alberta birds seem to be heading south or southeast once they reach the Edmonton area. This area is in the midst of a horrible drought and it appears the birds are seeking water which is fascinating. Water conditions appear to be much better in Sask and the Dakotas according to the maps. One fantasy, wouldn't it be great to fit a bird or birds with a camera!! A "beak cam"! What a perspective on migration that would provide! Thanks for your efforts with the Pintails

Moderator's Response: Hi Mike, Yes, we have noticed that at least some of the pintails will reach the prairie:prairie parkland boundary and then work their way southeast into Saskatchewan and North Dakota. The Dakotas are very wet this year, and eastern Saskatchewan is wet as well, so there will be pintail production in those areas. In Alberta, the birds are in the Camrose area and many are moving northwest of Edmonton, e.g. Grande Prairie.

Hello scientists, do you know if some pintail ringed in USA has ever been recovered in Europe or Africa? If some part of breeding grounds are in Russia it is possible that the two populations mix in some case, and choose a different wintering place. I am still convinced that a competition problem is in place by pintails and other duck species (mallard in particular) at least in occupying breeding sites. Thank you and good work!

Moderator's Response: All pintail banding data may be obtained from the U.S. Geological Survey's Bird Banding Lab. Published information discloses no incidences of USA-banded pintails showing up in Europe or Africa. However, pintails banded in Labrador, in Canada, have been recovered in England. Check out Rienecker, W.C. 1988. Additional notes on migrational distribution of northern pintail banded in California. California Fish and Game 74(1):61-63; Rienecker, W.C. 1987. Migration and distribution of northern pintails banded in California. California Fish and Game 73(3):139-155; Bellrose, F.C. 1980. Ducks, Geese, and Swans of North America, Page 267. Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania USA. We hope to answer some of your questions with the satellite tracking work. Thanks